Harvesters and Fusion Generators - A Step by Step

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Harvesters and Fusion Generators - A Step by Step

Post by Savacc » Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:01 pm

Note: This guide was originally written by Ecnal Kram and posted on the old SWGcraft.com. I have copied it here to preserve it and because I link to it from my FAQ. I did edit it to reflect changes that occured after Chapt 6 and expertise was added to crafting. - Savacc

Harvesters and Fusion Generators - A Step By Step

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A completed Heavy Harvester will require in the neighborhood of 27,000 units of as many as 10 different types of resources, a fair portion which requires specific and essential stats. The final combine requires specific resources, as many as 6 components, and at least 1 subcomponent. The bulk of the resources required can be grind quality, through and through, but there are areas where you will not be able to cut corners. The following is a compilation of information gathered from this site and my experience as an Archie.

There are 6 different types of harvesters classified as Heavy Harvesters:

Heavy Mineral Mining Installation
Fusion Ion Generator
Deep Crust Chemical Extractor
High Capacity Flora Farm
Heavy Natural Gas Processor
High Efficiency Moisture Vaporator

1. Making the Mining Unit.

There are 3 different components referred to as mining units.

Ore Mining Units (OMU's)-Used in Heavy Mineral Mining Installations and Fusion Ion Generators

Turbo Fluidic Pump Units (TFPU's)-Used in Deep Crust Chemical Extactors, Heavy Natural Gas Processors, and High Efficiency Moisture Vaporators

Heavy Harvesting Mechanisms (HHM's)-Uses in High Capacity Flora Farms

Here are some universal fundamentals applicable to all 3 of the above components.

In order to create acceptable mining units you will first need to craft a schematic. This schematic is then loaded into a Structure and Furniture Factory. You then load appropriate portions of the EXACT resources used when creating the schematic, into the factory input hopper. Powered up with maintenance added, your factory will produce identical mining units. Identical items have identical serial numbers. Similar items are any item similar in name, but without the exact same serial number. Note: Fusion Ion Generators require only 1 OMU. You will only need identical OMU's for fusion crafting if you plan on crafting a Fusion Ion Generator schematic for the purpose of a factory run.

Use steel and metal with high stats in: Heat Resistance(HR), Shock Resistance(SR), and Unit Toughness(UT)

For those mining units that require inert gas don't worry about quality. Inert gasses do not have HR, SR, and UT stats so it does not affect the final outcome negatively or positively.

Choose chemicals that do not have HR, SR, and UT stats. Examples of these include but may not be limited to: Known Liquid Petro Fuel and Lubricating Oil. Chemicals with stats that could affect your outcome are: Fiberplast and Polymer. Here's the reason. You can use grind quality chemicals if you use those that do not have HR, SR, and UT stats. Choose a chemical like Fiberplast or Polymer and you'll have to use premium quality stuff which will cost you an arm and a leg, or, would yield a cpu price on the open market which would outweigh the benefit of using it in your mining unit assembly.

The mining units schematics suffer from a common bug in this game, they can not get to 100% experimentation, even with "perfect" resources. Instead, they are limited to 99%. However there is a difference between 99% and a 99% that should be a 100% if the schematic were not bugged. The difference is a mining unit with BER 6 instead of a BER 7.

To make BER 7 mining units you must have the expertize boxes "Resource Processing" and "Advanced Resource Refinement". These will increase your resource quality by upto 4%. Then choose resources with HR, SR and UT that average 960 in quality. When experimenting it is essential to get at least one "amazing success". Experiment one box at a time till you get the amazing, then fill out the line. when you get to 99%, your BER rating should be 7. If you get to 99% with only "good" results, your BER rating will be only 6.

2. Structural Modules and Wall Modules.

The High Efficiency Moisture Vaporators require structural modules. All of the other heavies require wall modules. Use grind quality metal and ore to make these. Do not waste your time experimenting you walls. It does not affect the final combine. Remember, these do not have to be identical. I have used walls made by me in the same final combine with walls made by other archies. If you aspire to be an archie who mass produces heavies. Be prepared to use a boatload of ore and metal for these components. The majority of my factory time is spent on these two components. FYI: 1000 structual modules takes about 17 hours and a 100 walls takes about 3.5 hours to complete.

3. Generator Turbines (GT's).

Again, grind quality resources can be used for these components. Every heavy harvester requires at least 2 of these with exception of the Fusion Ion Generator which requires 3. These must be identical, therefore factory produced. As an Archie who makes more than just heavies, you will use these for many other structures as well.

4. Small Structure Storage Modules (SSSM's).

Use grind quality resources. These must be identical.

5. Manufacturing Mechanisms.

These are used in Fusion Ion Generators only. Use grind quality resources. These must be identical. These require, as a sub component, 1 GT. Because these must be identical, you must add identical GT's to the input hopper of your factory when setting up the factory run.

6. Resources for the final assembly.

Your primary concern when choosing resources for you final combine are the HR, SR, and UT stats. M and UT affect the hopper size but this should only be a secondary concern. Remember BER for dough, hopper size for show. By and large, experts agree, a BER14 unit with a minimum hopper size is all most players need.

Here are some fundamentals applicable to the final combine of all the heavies.

Use mining units that have been experimented to as high a level as possible, BER 7.

For those slots which require steel, metal and ore, look for high stats in HR, SR, and UT. I look for 960 or better in these stats, but have crafted nice heavies using steel and metal with essential stats below 960.

I will use a Heavy Mineral Mining Installation as an example.

There are 5 slots in the final combine of a Heavy Mineral Mining Installation that can affect the outcome.
A = Slot 1 : Requires 400 units of steel
B = Slot 2 : Requires 600 units of any type metal
C = Slot 4 : Requires 200 units of any type metal
D = Slot 5 : Requires 300 units of any type metal
E = Slot 7 : Requires 400 units of any chemical (as with the mining units, using a chemical like lube oil negates any affect that this slot has on the final outcome, this will reflect in the formula)

((400/1500((0.25*HR of A)+(0.25*SR of A)+(0.50 * UT of A))+(600/1500((0.25*HR of B)+(0.25*SR of B)+(0.50*UT of B))+(200/1500((0.25*HR of C)+(0.25*SR of C)+(0.50 * UT of C))+(300/1500((0.25*HR of D)+(0.25*SR of D)+(0.50 * UT of D))+(0/1500((0.25*HR of E)+(0.25*SR of E)+(0.50 * UT of E)))/10

Put that in your pipe and smoke it....lol. If your really feel the need to study out this formula, by all means, go for it. As you can see the amount of resources required and the quality lend to a two dimensional affect on the outcome by resources used. If you understand this formula, you can easily use it as a model for heavies other than Heavy Mineral Mining Installations. If you don't understand this formula don't fret. I've made thousands of heavies having never understood these fundamentals.

You can affect the outcome in the following ways.

Craft with high quality tools and stations. There is some degree of discrepency on this subject but most seem to agree that using good tools and stations only affects the assembly outcome and does not give you any kind of bonus on experimental outcome.

Wear clothing items that have Assembly and Experimentation bonuses plugged into the sockets. Back in the day, if you failed an assembly role, you lost resources and or components but that is no longer the case, so the assembly bonus seems to have no real value. Experimentation skill enhancing attachments can give you 2 additional experimentation points above the 10 that you get as a Master Architect. Many feel that the money spent on these as an architect is wasted as the only real advantage that it gives is the ability to craft better hopper sizes. As explained earlier, uber hopper sizes are useless to most miners. You should note that not only do you get the added 2 points but you also get a bonus to your experimentation roll, so you have a better chance of hitting great and amazing successes. I enjoy making uber hopper size harvies for the mere fact that in the only way discernable, mine are the best money can buy.

Craft in a city that has the tag of Research Center. This gives you a +15 to your experimentation roll.

Drink Bespin Port. This gives you a +4 to your experimentation roll.

Eat Pyollian Cake. This gives you a +6 to your assembly roll.

Note regarding Fusion Ion Generators: Recent changes have now made it possible for Archies to hit BER 19 fusions. Awesome!!!

Many will not be able to consistenly produce BER14 harvs due to resource limitations. If you do not have the resources to craft BER7 mining units you can still make BER13 harvs. These may continue to sell well, but my experience has been that the SWG crowd is fickle. They want the best and pay little for the rest. Go for the 14's but remember you can probably make a profit on the 13's. After you master making a BER 14 heavies and fusions the only challenge left in making these is shooting for uber hopper sizes. My personal best on a Fusion is around 142k. On the other harvesters my personal best is around 135.5k.

Elite Harvesters follow all the same principles. The difference is the Elites have their own mining units, which are not bugged, and can get to 100% and BER 21.

MTFBWY in all your crafting.
Last edited by Savacc on Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: removed the sentance that Whist34 is asking about

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Re: Harvesters and Fusion Generators - A Step by Step

Post by Whist34 » Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:33 pm

Savacc wrote:Note: This guide was originally written by Ecnal Kram and posted on the old SWGcraft.com. I have copied it here to preserve it and because I link to it from my FAQ. I did edit it to reflect changes that occured after Chapt 6 and expertise was added to crafting. - Savacc

...Here is a formula that helps you pre-calculate the experimental percentage which combined with your mining unit experimental percentage will determine your outcome. I will use a Heavy Mineral Mining Installation as an example.

There are 5 slots in the final combine of a Heavy Mineral Mining Installation that can affect the outcome.
A = Slot 1 : Requires 400 units of steel
B = Slot 2 : Requires 600 units of any type metal
C = Slot 4 : Requires 200 units of any type metal
D = Slot 5 : Requires 300 units of any type metal
E = Slot 7 : Requires 400 units of any chemical (as with the mining units, using a chemical like lube oil negates any affect that this slot has on the final outcome, this will reflect in the formula)

((400/1500((0.25*HR of A)+(0.25*SR of A)+(0.50 * UT of A))+(600/1500((0.25*HR of B)+(0.25*SR of B)+(0.50*UT of B))+(200/1500((0.25*HR of C)+(0.25*SR of C)+(0.50 * UT of C))+(300/1500((0.25*HR of D)+(0.25*SR of D)+(0.50 * UT of D))+(0/1500((0.25*HR of E)+(0.25*SR of E)+(0.50 * UT of E)))/10
Can anyone elaborate on how this can be combined with the mining unit experimental value? And how this experimental value affects the final BER outcome?

I'm trying to add this formula to my spreadsheet for planning Elite harvestors. So far I have 69.15% for the final combine and 75.4% for the advanced ore mining units. But I can't figure out how these percentages are supposed to affect the BER. I think these are the experimentation percents I will have to work with when crafting, but not sure.

Thanks for any help =)

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Re: Harvesters and Fusion Generators - A Step by Step

Post by Savacc » Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:14 am

To be honest, I just copied and pasted that from Ecnal's guide. Now that I look at it, its just the regular crafting formula applied to making a Heavy Mineral Harvester. Read Zs guide to Traders to see the formula as it would apply to all schematics, or watch the formulas in the assembly phase of your crafting tool (the screen where you choose your resources and get the colored bars).

This guide was always intended to be a "How to make BER 14 Heavies and BER 44 Elite Harvesters" anything less is basically unsellable. If your question is, "At what percentage is a harvester BER 11, BER 12, BER 13?" My answer would be that it doesnt matter. The harvester is BER 14 at 100%.

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Re: Harvesters and Fusion Generators - A Step by Step

Post by Whist34 » Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:36 pm

I'm sorry, I guess I wasn't clear on my question. Let me try to explain it again =)

I want to make 44 Elites. I am trying to create a spreadsheet to help predict the results based soley on resource quality.

My question is about this statement in the guide:
"... Here is a formula that helps you pre-calculate the experimental percentage which combined with your mining unit experimental percentage will determine your outcome."

I completely understand the experimental effectiveness formula posted here and in the trader guide, what I don't understand is how the mining unit experimental percentage combines with the harvestor's final combine resources experimental percentage. The guide only lists the final combine resource experimental calculation, but does not go into detail about how the mining unit affects the end result. This may not be something that is known by anyone in the community, but since it was stated in the guide I was hoping someone might know the answer.


I think the advanced ore mining unit gives a base BER to start from and then the final combine resources contribute the remaining BER. So if I am using advanced ore mining units with BER 22 then the final combine resources would add on the remaining 22 to get to the max BER of 44. That is how I think it works, but would like confirmation.

Following is an example of what I am working with right now: (Values are predictions based on the formula provided in the guide.)
Chemical: Lub Oil (no affect on effectiveness)
Eokowihod Duralloy Steel HR: 991, SR 987, UT 952 (Expertise Resource Modifier +4 gives HR 995, SR 991, UT 956)

Predicted Advanced Ore Mining Unit Exp Effectiveness = 97.45% => BER 21
Predicted Final Combine Resource Exp Effectiveness = 97.45% => BER 21
(Another question is whether the BER uses standard rounding rules or rounds up? I made the assumption it uses standard rounding rules, but hope it rounds up =)

This would give a predicted BER of 42 (If this is how the combine works.)


Besides trying to clear up this issue, is there anything else I have missed that would affect the initial experimental effectiveness bar (which directly affects the max attainable BER)?


Thank you for any answers or help.

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Re: Harvesters and Fusion Generators - A Step by Step

Post by Savacc » Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:14 am

Ok, I may have edited that calculation out, as being no longer applicable, or Ecnal may have before me. This particular guide has a long history. It was originally a guide to make BER 13 Heavy Harvesters. At that time there were no bonuses to resource quality. It was theoretically possible to make BER 14 Heavy Harvesters, but would have taken steel and ore with stats of 1000 HR, SR and UT, so BER 13 was a more reasonable goal. Ecnal had a calculation that showed, roughly, what you needed to experiment the mining unit and harvester to for the final result to be a BER 13. My memory is that the magic number was 180 or maybe a bit higher. That is, a mining unit experimented to 90% combined with a harvester experimented to 90% would get you there, or a mining unit of 85% and a harvester of 95%, and so on. When means to increase resource quality became available, first as an entertainer buff, later as expertise options, BER 14 Harvesters went from theory, to practice and BER 13 Harvesters and any calculations for making them, became obsolete.

It occurred to me that there might be a copy of Ecnal's original guide at the SOE forums, so I went looking, but couldnt find it, sorry.

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Re: Harvesters and Fusion Generators - A Step by Step

Post by Whist34 » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:06 pm

Things are making a lot more sense now =)

A friend mentioned the resource quality increase was +1% per expertiese point spent (not +1 per expertise point as I had thought). So for a 1000 cap attribute it would be a resource quality increase of 40 (4%) if 4 expertise points are spent. This matches the statment in one guide which mentions you want stats greater than 960 (or 96% of the cap for the attribute).

So basically, my need to predict the outcome would only apply if I didn't have resources with attributes greater than 96% of their cap (I have a few below 96%, but not enough to make a huge difference on the predicted effectiveness especially if the UT is greater than 96% =)

This makes planning a factory run of harvestors much easier. Thank you for your help =)

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Re: Harvesters and Fusion Generators - A Step by Step

Post by Zimoon » Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:35 pm

The exact formulas, and discussions on bonuses, caps, etc., are read in the Beginners Guide for Traders in the General Cracting forum of this board.

Great to see newcomers here, welcome :D

/Zimoon

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Re: Harvesters and Fusion Generators - A Step by Step

Post by Kirneh » Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:02 pm

Just to clear my view of the process:

The Elite Harvesting Units are capped at BER 21. As you need 2 for crafting a harvester, this will lead to BER 42. During the final combine of the harvester, it will result in BER 44, if the percentage of both experimentations (Havesting Units and Harvester) will have at least 180.

e.g.:
Harvesting Unit BER 21 @ 90%
Harvester final combination @ 90%

=> Harvester BER 44

Am I right or wrong?
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Re: Harvesters and Fusion Generators - A Step by Step

Post by Savacc » Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:13 am

Kirneh wrote:Just to clear my view of the process:

The Elite Harvesting Units are capped at BER 21. As you need 2 for crafting a harvester, this will lead to BER 42. During the final combine of the harvester, it will result in BER 44, if the percentage of both experimentations (Havesting Units and Harvester) will have at least 180.

e.g.:
Harvesting Unit BER 21 @ 90%
Harvester final combination @ 90%

=> Harvester BER 44

Am I right or wrong?
Sorry but you would be wrong. To get a BER 44 Elite Harvester you must experiment the Mining Unit and final combine, both to 100%
Experimenting a Mining Unit to 90% would, most likely result in a BER 20 unit
Experimenting the final combine to 90% with BER 20 Mining Units will get you a BER 41 harvester, most likely. With BER 21 Mining Units, you could get a BER 43 Harvester.

Please ignore the whole discussion Whist34 brought up. He was asking at what point is an Elite Harvester going to be 42 or 43 instead of a perfect 44.

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Re: Harvesters and Fusion Generators - A Step by Step

Post by Kirneh » Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:57 pm

Ok, no problem for the difusion.

So the BER is capped at 21 for elites.
If I use 2 x 100% BER21 and match the final combine to 100% everything will be in order to get BER44 Harvis.

I think I get it now. Thanks.
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Re: Harvesters and Fusion Generators - A Step by Step

Post by wrackspurt » Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:23 pm

Just curious. When you see a formula like:

((400/1500((0.25*HR of A)+(0.25*SR of A)+(0.50 * UT of A))+(600/1500((0.25*HR of B)+(0.25*SR of B)+(0.50*UT of B))+(200/1500((0.25*HR of C)+(0.25*SR of C)+(0.50 * UT of C))+(300/1500((0.25*HR of D)+(0.25*SR of D)+(0.50 * UT of D))+(0/1500((0.25*HR of E)+(0.25*SR of E)+(0.50 * UT of E)))/10

Are most of you like, "Oh that's cool"? Or do you cringe in fear like I do?

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Re: Harvesters and Fusion Generators - A Step by Step

Post by Belisama » Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:40 pm

wrackspurt wrote:Just curious. When you see a formula like:
((400/1500((0.25*HR of A)+(0.25*SR of A)+(0.50 * UT of A))+(600/1500((0.25*HR of B)+(0.25*SR of B)+(0.50*UT of B))+(200/1500((0.25*HR of C)+(0.25*SR of C)+(0.50 * UT of C))+(300/1500((0.25*HR of D)+(0.25*SR of D)+(0.50 * UT of D))+(0/1500((0.25*HR of E)+(0.25*SR of E)+(0.50 * UT of E)))/10
Are most of you like, "Oh that's cool"? Or do you cringe in fear like I do?
I know why i do not do in harvesters.... ;)
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Re: Harvesters and Fusion Generators - A Step by Step

Post by Sobuno » Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:17 pm

wrackspurt wrote:Just curious. When you see a formula like:

((400/1500((0.25*HR of A)+(0.25*SR of A)+(0.50 * UT of A))+(600/1500((0.25*HR of B)+(0.25*SR of B)+(0.50*UT of B))+(200/1500((0.25*HR of C)+(0.25*SR of C)+(0.50 * UT of C))+(300/1500((0.25*HR of D)+(0.25*SR of D)+(0.50 * UT of D))+(0/1500((0.25*HR of E)+(0.25*SR of E)+(0.50 * UT of E)))/10

Are most of you like, "Oh that's cool"? Or do you cringe in fear like I do?
Seems rather simple :P

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Re: Harvesters and Fusion Generators - A Step by Step

Post by Hurlobacca » Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:47 am

Just adding my two cents regarding the use of chemical without SR/UT (the guide mentions HR as well but no chemicals have HR stats). If you don't have high SR/UT Polymer or Fiberplast then Chemical Compound is the way to go vs. Lube Oil because you'll never have to worry about running out of a certain specific resource before you've used up your schematic, and neither will affect the outcome.

On the other hand, it's worth keeping an eye out for high SR/UT Polymer or Fiberplast since MA is not capped for these resources and it could help offset the lower MA you find with steel and metal.

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Re: Harvesters and Fusion Generators - A Step by Step

Post by passionfly1 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:42 pm

Savacc wrote: Drink Bespin Port. This gives you a +4 to your experimentation roll.

Eat Pyollian Cake. This gives you a +6 to your assembly roll.
Drinking Port AND eating Cake is not possible since the the way SWG has been revamped to only allow for either one type of food or drink at a time. Before you were able to have a food and a drink now its either or. You need to eat Cake first to get the assembly bonus then after you started in your experimentation can drink the port. This is a very important distinction since some Traders will not know the difference if they are trying to do both at the same time, eating and drinking. They must be done in succession. Preferably, eating first then drinking at a later point before the experimentation points are started to be applied.

You must drink Port before accepting each set of experiment points (out of the total of up to 14 you get max) as each "accept" on the points removes the port buff. For instance, if you have 14 experiment points and accept each time you add 1 point then you would need to drink Port 14 times. One for each point before clicking on experiment (accept). If you use 7 points twice then you would only need to drink port 2 times.

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