Stat caps

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SpaceyDaFrog
Novice Crafter
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Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:45 pm

Re: Stat caps

Post by SpaceyDaFrog » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:17 pm

Darn me forgetting things early in the morning.


On the 2nd attempt when it ended at 14.399998, lets try to figure out how the Expertise box fits into the equation.

Since only the one resource was used, and only CD matters, the equation is simple

940 CD / 1000 CD_max = .94

.94 x 1.04 (original hypothesis of how bonus is applied) gives maximum (assuming at least 1 amazing was used in 10 tries) of .9776

.9776 x 30 (maximum increase) = 29.328 increase from initial (so end result of 14.328


Now lets try the adding a straight .04 (40 / 1000)

using same .94 as resource quality as before

.94 + .04 = .98

.98 x 30 = 29.4, end result of 29.4 - 15 = 14.4

This result is closer to the observed end results of 14.399998 than the x1.04 theoretical result of 14.328, so I'd lean more towards the straight addition of 40 for the expertise box
Okopte Jagerman - Structure Trader

NarfBlinko
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Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:27 pm

Re: Stat caps

Post by NarfBlinko » Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:38 pm

Zimoon wrote:I will wait a little before I update the guide with the 4% bonus, not that I doubt you but I hesitate hastily changing anything. I am trying to find schematics I can play around with but not so many simple schematics show me all the ugly decimals all the way.

When I thought about this yesterday, yes, adding 40 out of 1000 is like adding 4%. But in reality everything will be higher than 4%, sometimes a lot higher. Not that it matter much but consider a weighed average of 400 plus 40, that is 10%, 800 plus 40 is 5%, 960 plus 40 is 4.16666666667%.

I also trusted SOE for the 4% and never read any other input on the topic from trusted players confirmed to be number geeks by nature ;)

On the other topic, Critical Success aka *Lucky* amazing, I just stole the number from the official SOE/SWG Structure Trader board. At the time I played Chef and to my knowledge there is no schematic that shows decimals good enough to see the difference between 8.05 and 8.4. It would be great to verify this positive though, greedy me :D

As always, some numbers and a way to get these two verified would not hurt.

Yes, welcome and now let's have fun here ;)

/Zimoon
My method:
I use Excel. I input the initial stat, then the subsequent stats as I experiment one point at a time.

I calculate the difference between each stat as I progress. Example:
Stat Difference from Previous Stat
1259.2 n/a
1289.2 30
1319.2 30
.
.
.

I do this until I can experiment no further.

Having established that a normal Amazing result is equal to a Great result multiplied by 1.15 (8.05/7 = 1.15), and never getting anything but Great and Amazing results when crafting ship parts (full shipwright expertise, research center, perfect station, perfect tool), I take any "Difference from Previous Stat" that comes from an Amazing and divide it by 1.15 to get its equivalent Change Per Great Success value (used in Shipwright's Little Helper). I then average all the CPGS values to get my best estimate of the true CPGS, dropping the final result that reached the resource-based cap.

While crafting something with those 6-decimal-place values (think it was subcomponents, but can't recall which...I'll try to get some numbers from TC tonight), I received some Amazing experimentations where the one with a <LUCKY> was significantly higher than usual. So, I divided the result by the CPGS previously determined for the item, then multiplied by 7% and arrived at 8.4% for a <LUCKY> Amazing result. I will note, I did not get the system message stating I had gotten a "Critical Success", I got the standard Amazing Success message, but saw the <LUCKY> flytext. TBH, I don't remember seeing this much before, but while crafting on Live after C8 came out, I was getting a <LUCKY> every few dozen experimentations. I had no Luck enhancers going, not even an Ent buff.

Now, for the +40 vs 1.04 multiplier: I had similar experiences to SpaceyDaFrog, except where he saw 97% in the experimentation window, I was seeing 98%.
Narf
Keeper of the Pilot FAQ

NarfBlinko
Novice Crafter
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:27 pm

Re: Stat caps

Post by NarfBlinko » Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:41 pm

Savacc wrote:Ive read your posts on this subject on the "other" forum. Ild like to see the schematics you worked on that led you to this conclusion. Or some other testing done to support your assertion. You could very well be right. Ill admit I just took SOE at their word when they said they were giving us a 4% increase to resource quality, and assumed it worked the way I thought. I can see now, that your interpretation of what they said, works as well as mine. Its time now to see if we can find which way it really works, either by testing, or a dev telling us how they did it.

Two other issues I wish you would address for me, You claim a "Lucky" amazing adds 8.4, not 8.05 like a normal amazing. Ild like to see your research on that. From what I saw, while crafting last night, I tend to believe you on this one, but how did you come to 8.4? And have you looked into what I found on Capaciter Subcomponants and Weapon Subcomponants?

Hey, did I say welcome to this forum, Im really glad to see you contribute here and hope you keep coming back? :D
Point me to the Capacitor and Weapon subcomponents discussion and I'll see what I can contribute.

For the 8.4, I noticed I had gotten a <LUCKY> on an Amazing result and noticed that the stat change was abnormally high for an Amazing, so I divided the stat increase result from the <LUCKY> Amazing by the stat increase for a Great and, instead of getting 1.15, I got 1.2. 1.2 * 7 = 8.4.
Narf
Keeper of the Pilot FAQ

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Savacc
Architect & Shipwright Forum Moderator
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Location: Central Oregon

Re: Stat caps

Post by Savacc » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:19 pm

NarfBlinko wrote:Point me to the Capacitor and Weapon subcomponents discussion and I'll see what I can contribute.
I pointed it out in your "Call to Shipwrights" Thread, but its from a thread about "Capping two lines on a Chaff Launcher". It was right after I posted that you said "Lucky" amazings get 8.4%.
NarfBlinko wrote:For the 8.4, I noticed I had gotten a <LUCKY> on an Amazing result and noticed that the stat change was abnormally high for an Amazing, so I divided the stat increase result from the <LUCKY> Amazing by the stat increase for a Great and, instead of getting 1.15, I got 1.2. 1.2 * 7 = 8.4.
What were you making that gave you a result with enough precision to measure that accuratly? or did you do this several times and find 8.4 to be the average?
What i mean is, I noticed this while making Engines. On Yaw and Pitch I get a 53% if I get 3 "amazings", suddenly I get a <Lucky> "amazing" and get 54%. I say to myself, "hey, maybe Narf is right about this." But from my example, I have no way of saying, "yeah, I got an 8.4 increase instead of 8.05"
Last edited by Savacc on Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.

NarfBlinko
Novice Crafter
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:27 pm

Re: Stat caps

Post by NarfBlinko » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:31 pm

Savacc wrote:
Point me to the Capacitor and Weapon subcomponents discussion and I'll see what I can contribute.
I pointed it out in your "Call to Shipwrights" Thread, but its from a thread about "Capping two lines on a Chaff Launcher". It was right after I posted that you said "Lucky" amazings get 8.4%.
Ah, I remember now. I'll see what I can find out, but from what I remember, the stat change on my amazings were still 1.15 * the change for greats. I'll get back to you.
Narf
Keeper of the Pilot FAQ

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