Need help with refining 2nd order power bits

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passionfly1
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Need help with refining 2nd order power bits

Post by passionfly1 » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:59 pm

Ok, I'm sorta going off of these posts a little and then digressing:
http://www.swgcraft.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=790
and
http://www.swgcraft.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=790

I have pretty much mastered getting the 1st power bits I need to make a +21 suit for DE and Structure for myself and a +9% suit for RE chance. Now comes the next big hurdle making a 2nd order bit strong enough to accomodate the 2nd stat. This is giving me a particular problem.

As you read this I am assuming based on the RE 101 sticky you know how to:
1) refine 1st order power bits (make them stronger)
2) create an SEA with 2 stats and
3) I am not covering 3rd order power bits in this topic (that is for a later time...)

Atm, I have with +150 entertainer luck buff, +luck stim, +luck food and my inherent +luck gear 567 Luck total. I have no Pups that I am using because I have not taught myself about pups yet. That's going to be my next step after I make my first RE suit. Perhaps I should make some sort of RE chance pup to help me here but maybe thats why I'm posting this to get advice if its the best course of action to make and learn about Pups now instead of after I make my RE suit. I have no RE chance gear since I am crafting my first RE suit that has the RE chance in it! I am fully aware of the +5% RE chance cybernetic arm from the collection I can use exists but I do not want my beautiful toon to be SCARRED BY AN UGLY ARM! lol Why can't SOE come out with cybernetic hands instead of whole arms is beyond me!

I would like to ultimately create an SEA for Breastplate, Weapon and Shirt that has the following stats for my first RE suit:
+7 Droid Experimentation
+3 RE Chance
+35 Luck
This will give me a total of +21 DE Experiment, +9% RE Chance, +105 Luck

So far I have managed to create:
a) 1 Weapon SEA with +7 DE Experiment and +3 RE chance
b) 2 DE experimentation mod bits with 4 conversion ratio (these are to be used to give to an munitions and domestics trade to make the armor and clothing SEA, respectively)
c) 2 +28 1st order power bits (to be used along with the mod bits in b above to make the armor and clothing SEA)
d) 2 +3 RE chance mod bits (simple enough anyone can make these)
.....and now here is my problem I have made...
e) 2 +30 1st order power bits to add to the RE chance mod bit but of course they need to be 2nd order not 1st order

On the a) I got very lucky and out pumped a 2nd order +30 power bit. I have no idea how this happened nor do I remember if I did it or I just had one from all my gear reverse engineering and used it but I was very excited when I found it in my 2nd order power bit Travel pack.

So this leads to my question how does one refine a 2nd order power bit (to get 2 +30 2nd order power bits) from either:
a) the 2 existing +30 1st order power bits I already have
or
b) 2 +27 2nd order power bits I have also from reverse engineering loot
or
c) do I have to just keep reverse engineering 2 pieces of loot items of a high-stated quality until a +30 2nd order bit pops out?

How do I refine these to make them 2 +30 2nd order power bits? I am at a complete loss here.

Am I to assume you can ONLY get high level 2nd order power bits from the initial reverse engineering of them from 2 pieces of stated items?

Is this the only way or can 2nd order power bits be refined in order to make them stronger after you RE them from loot? The way that 1st order power bits can be refined.

I have spent an exorbitant amount of time since July 21st when I got back into the game to get to this point. Almost a whole month of looting junk and RE'ing, acquiring +luck clothing, good +luck foods, making power bits, etc. Now I am at a crossroads and I am reaching out to my fellow traders to help me here cause I am stuck (and also down to my last 25k credits LOL).

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Re: Need help with refining 2nd order power bits

Post by Zimoon » Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:12 pm

passionfly1 wrote:Ok, I'm sorta going off of these posts a little and then digressing:
http://www.swgcraft.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=790
and
http://www.swgcraft.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=790

I have pretty much mastered getting the 1st power bits I need to make a +21 suit for DE and Structure for myself and a +9% suit for RE chance. Now comes the next big hurdle making a 2nd order bit strong enough to accomodate the 2nd stat. This is giving me a particular problem.

As you read this I am assuming based on the RE 101 sticky you know how to:
1) refine 1st order power bits (make them stronger)
2) create an SEA with 2 stats and
3) I am not covering 3rd order power bits in this topic (that is for a later time...)

Atm, I have with +150 entertainer luck buff, +luck stim, +luck food and my inherent +luck gear 567 Luck total. I have no Pups that I am using because I have not taught myself about pups yet. That's going to be my next step after I make my first RE suit. Perhaps I should make some sort of RE chance pup to help me here but maybe thats why I'm posting this to get advice if its the best course of action to make and learn about Pups now instead of after I make my RE suit. I have no RE chance gear since I am crafting my first RE suit that has the RE chance in it! I am fully aware of the +5% RE chance cybernetic arm from the collection I can use exists but I do not want my beautiful toon to be SCARRED BY AN UGLY ARM! lol Why can't SOE come out with cybernetic hands instead of whole arms is beyond me!

Cover the arm with a jacket or something :lol:
PUPs are as easy as anything else, a RE-Chance modifier plus a +35 power but, voilá!


I would like to ultimately create an SEA for Breastplate, Weapon and Shirt that has the following stats for my first RE suit:
+7 Droid Experimentation
+3 RE Chance
+35 Luck
This will give me a total of +21 DE Experiment, +9% RE Chance, +105 Luck

So far I have managed to create:
a) 1 Weapon SEA with +7 DE Experiment and +3 RE chance
b) 2 DE experimentation mod bits with 4 conversion ratio (these are to be used to give to an munitions and domestics trade to make the armor and clothing SEA, respectively)
c) 2 +28 1st order power bits (to be used along with the mod bits in b above to make the armor and clothing SEA)
d) 2 +3 RE chance mod bits (simple enough anyone can make these)
.....and now here is my problem I have made...
e) 2 +30 1st order power bits to add to the RE chance mod bit but of course they need to be 2nd order not 1st order

On the a) I got very lucky and out pumped a 2nd order +30 power bit. I have no idea how this happened nor do I remember if I did it or I just had one from all my gear reverse engineering and used it but I was very excited when I found it in my 2nd order power bit Travel pack.

So this leads to my question how does one refine a 2nd order power bit (to get 2 +30 2nd order power bits) from either:
a) the 2 existing +30 1st order power bits I already have
or
b) 2 +27 2nd order power bits I have also from reverse engineering loot
or
c) do I have to just keep reverse engineering 2 pieces of loot items of a high-stated quality until a +30 2nd order bit pops out?

The "cheapest" would be one power bit of wanted strength and clothing with +3 modifiers, any strength. I thought that is mentioned in the guide, is it not? Or is it just badly phrased?
But one 2-order of the wanted strength and one 2-order of any strength will also do.
I am at work so have no time to verify wy wordings here.
;)

How do I refine these to make them 2 +30 2nd order power bits? I am at a complete loss here.

Test it out with some low-power crap you have. Name it "research" and it feels much fancier :mrgreen:

Am I to assume you can ONLY get high level 2nd order power bits from the initial reverse engineering of them from 2 pieces of stated items?

I don't bother with the order until I have them at the wanted strength, then I turn them 3-order.

Is this the only way or can 2nd order power bits be refined in order to make them stronger after you RE them from loot? The way that 1st order power bits can be refined.

I have spent an exorbitant amount of time since July 21st when I got back into the game to get to this point. Almost a whole month of looting junk and RE'ing, acquiring +luck clothing, good +luck foods, making power bits, etc. Now I am at a crossroads and I am reaching out to my fellow traders to help me here cause I am stuck (and also down to my last 25k credits LOL).
In purple :)

I appreciate feedback on language and/or wording about the guide RE 101, as you probably know English is not my first language so most possibly some phrases could be polished upon. A lot :roll:

/Zimoon

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passionfly1
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Posts: 51
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Re: Need help with refining 2nd order power bits

Post by passionfly1 » Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:06 pm

Zimoon wrote:
passionfly1 wrote:Ok, I'm sorta going off of these posts a little and then digressing:
http://www.swgcraft.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=790
and
http://www.swgcraft.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=790

I have pretty much mastered getting the 1st power bits I need to make a +21 suit for DE and Structure for myself and a +9% suit for RE chance. Now comes the next big hurdle making a 2nd order bit strong enough to accomodate the 2nd stat. This is giving me a particular problem.

As you read this I am assuming based on the RE 101 sticky you know how to:
1) refine 1st order power bits (make them stronger)
2) create an SEA with 2 stats and
3) I am not covering 3rd order power bits in this topic (that is for a later time...)

Atm, I have with +150 entertainer luck buff, +luck stim, +luck food and my inherent +luck gear 567 Luck total. I have no Pups that I am using because I have not taught myself about pups yet. That's going to be my next step after I make my first RE suit. Perhaps I should make some sort of RE chance pup to help me here but maybe thats why I'm posting this to get advice if its the best course of action to make and learn about Pups now instead of after I make my RE suit. I have no RE chance gear since I am crafting my first RE suit that has the RE chance in it! I am fully aware of the +5% RE chance cybernetic arm from the collection I can use exists but I do not want my beautiful toon to be SCARRED BY AN UGLY ARM! lol Why can't SOE come out with cybernetic hands instead of whole arms is beyond me!

Cover the arm with a jacket or something :lol:
PUPs are as easy as anything else, a RE-Chance modifier plus a +35 power but, voilá!


Heh, I won' waste a 35 power at this stage it takes me too long to get em to 30 let alone 35. I'll try a lower value first. Some 19's I have a lot of.

I would like to ultimately create an SEA for Breastplate, Weapon and Shirt that has the following stats for my first RE suit:
+7 Droid Experimentation
+3 RE Chance
+35 Luck
This will give me a total of +21 DE Experiment, +9% RE Chance, +105 Luck

So far I have managed to create:
a) 1 Weapon SEA with +7 DE Experiment and +3 RE chance
b) 2 DE experimentation mod bits with 4 conversion ratio (these are to be used to give to an munitions and domestics trade to make the armor and clothing SEA, respectively)
c) 2 +28 1st order power bits (to be used along with the mod bits in b above to make the armor and clothing SEA)
d) 2 +3 RE chance mod bits (simple enough anyone can make these)
.....and now here is my problem I have made...
e) 2 +30 1st order power bits to add to the RE chance mod bit but of course they need to be 2nd order not 1st order

On the a) I got very lucky and out pumped a 2nd order +30 power bit. I have no idea how this happened nor do I remember if I did it or I just had one from all my gear reverse engineering and used it but I was very excited when I found it in my 2nd order power bit Travel pack.

So this leads to my question how does one refine a 2nd order power bit (to get 2 +30 2nd order power bits) from either:
a) the 2 existing +30 1st order power bits I already have
or
b) 2 +27 2nd order power bits I have also from reverse engineering loot
or
c) do I have to just keep reverse engineering 2 pieces of loot items of a high-stated quality until a +30 2nd order bit pops out?

The "cheapest" would be one power bit of wanted strength and clothing with +3 modifiers, any strength. I thought that is mentioned in the guide, is it not? Or is it just badly phrased?
But one 2-order of the wanted strength and one 2-order of any strength will also do.
I am at work so have no time to verify wy wordings here.
;)

I'm not understanding this part entirely. I am supposed to drop my 2nd order +27 power and an article of clothing with 3 stats on it? or a value of +3? This is confusing me. So I can also take 2 2-order power bits and make an SEA out of em? but then when I drop the SEA into a socketable weapon and RE that weapon it always comes out a 1st order power bit no matter that? How is this possible?

How do I refine these to make them 2 +30 2nd order power bits? I am at a complete loss here.

Test it out with some low-power crap you have. Name it "research" and it feels much fancier :mrgreen:

I did test them out and they always come out 1st order power bits, always!

Am I to assume you can ONLY get high level 2nd order power bits from the initial reverse engineering of them from 2 pieces of stated items?

I don't bother with the order until I have them at the wanted strength, then I turn them 3-order.

That's why I wrote this post I'm trying to get them to the wanted strength and don't know how. Like I said above I have 2 1st order +30 power bits and I need to somehow transform them into 2nd order so I can drop them along with the mod bit (RE Chance in this example) to get the 2nd stat on the SEA. I have the 1st stat power/mod bits made those are a done deal. Now I need to make the 2nd order power bits strong enough to give me +3 RE chance as the 2nd stat on the SEA. But I can't, they ALWAYS come out 1st order when i try and refine the 2nd order any higher (going from a +27 2-order to +28 2-order always comes out either a +27 1st order or +28 1st order for example). I'm doing something wrong but I don't know what =(

In your FAQ you state in the section creating a Multistat SEA:
2.
Create a full power item as usual. RE the item plus an item with 2 stats to make a 2nd order power bit with retained power. Create a second SEA using this 2nd order power bit + another modifier wished for + the first SEA.

The part in red I don't understand.


Is this the only way or can 2nd order power bits be refined in order to make them stronger after you RE them from loot? The way that 1st order power bits can be refined.

I have spent an exorbitant amount of time since July 21st when I got back into the game to get to this point. Almost a whole month of looting junk and RE'ing, acquiring +luck clothing, good +luck foods, making power bits, etc. Now I am at a crossroads and I am reaching out to my fellow traders to help me here cause I am stuck (and also down to my last 25k credits LOL).
In purple :)

I appreciate feedback on language and/or wording about the guide RE 101, as you probably know English is not my first language so most possibly some phrases could be polished upon. A lot :roll:

/Zimoon

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passionfly1
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Posts: 51
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:03 am

Re: Need help with refining 2nd order power bits

Post by passionfly1 » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:24 pm

Ok, I tried this test it has promising results. I took a +8 2nd order power bit combined it with a mod bit with a 1 convertion ratio (stamina I think it was), and made a +8 SEA. Dropped it onto a decorative knife. Then took a ring with 2 stats on it +5/+6 precision/const and put both em them in the RE tool then RE'd it. Out popped a +9 3rd order power bit...

This is good cause it went up 1 point even if its 3rd order. If I was to drop this 3rd order power bit along with a mod bit and an already existing SEA with only 1-stat on it, I should get an SEA with 2-stats on it right? Then I can take another 3rd order power bit and a mod bit and that 2-stat SEA and make it into a 3-stat SEA right?

From what I understand, you can use a 3rd order power bits to substitute for a 2nd order power bits to create the 2nd stat. Am I correct in this?

So in the above example does the other loot item have to be a 2-stat item? or can it be a 1-stat? I would rather overkill and produce 3rd order power bits then under kill and turn a 2nd order into a 1st order and have to start all over.

Next I have to test out converting junk 1st order power bits into 2nd order power bits...

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Re: Need help with refining 2nd order power bits

Post by Zimoon » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:39 pm

passionfly1 wrote:Ok, I tried this test it has promising results. I took a +8 2nd order power bit combined it with a mod bit with a 1 convertion ratio (stamina I think it was), and made a +8 SEA. Dropped it onto a decorative knife. Then took a ring with 2 stats on it +5/+6 precision/const and put both em them in the RE tool then RE'd it. Out popped a +9 3rd order power bit...

This is good cause it went up 1 point even if its 3rd order. If I was to drop this 3rd order power bit along with a mod bit and an already existing SEA with only 1-stat on it, I should get an SEA with 2-stats on it right? Then I can take another 3rd order power bit and a mod bit and that 2-stat SEA and make it into a 3-stat SEA right?

Yes!

From what I understand, you can use a 3rd order power bits to substitute for a 2nd order power bits to create the 2nd stat. Am I correct in this?

So in the above example does the other loot item have to be a 2-stat item? or can it be a 1-stat? I would rather overkill and produce 3rd order power bits then under kill and turn a 2nd order into a 1st order and have to start all over.

Once it worked that way, then it was changed (or corrected) so you must use a 2-order for the 2nd modifier, and a 3-order for the last step. I am sorry but I cannot say more than that since I have not RE's in some months with all my spare time run into SWGAide instead ;)
Some other huy must confirm or negate here.


Next I have to test out converting junk 1st order power bits into 2nd order power bits...

Usually you will see the power but jump up and down between orders in the iterating process, at random.
This time in red :D

/Zimoon

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passionfly1
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Re: Need help with refining 2nd order power bits

Post by passionfly1 » Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:55 pm

...2nd set of tests...getting a 1st order power bit transformed into a 2nd order power bit...

I took a +6 1st order power bit and combined with a normal mod bit and got a +6 SEA. Dropped that onto the decorative knife and combined it with a +16 const piece of statted gloves and out popped...a +17 2nd order power bit.

...this is both good and bad...

Its good cause it not only went up 1 point but it transformed a 1st order power bit into a 2nd order power bit....BUT! It appears the strength of the final power bit is being determined by the looted item not the crafted and SEA dropped item (which was +6 in this case)!

So in theory if I was to take a +27 2nd order power bit drop it onto a decor knife and take the knife and DE it along with a +25 single stat looted item (since +25 is the max on looted items) the result would not be a +28 2nd order power bit but a +25 or even +26 2nd order power bit....is this correct?

if this is so then how the heck do ppl make +35 2nd order power bits that I have seen on the vendors?

In this configuration it would be impossible to get a 2nd order power bit above +25 since if it draws its power from the looted item and looted items are maxxed at +25 then how do ppl do it and get +26 and higher 2nd orders if not by the initial creation of one and no further refinement is possible in that case?

It seems you either get it right the first go at it with 2 pieces of looted items or that's it u can't refine a 2nd order power bit higher then +25, once you have it at +25.

Someone please tell me I'm way off base here...

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passionfly1
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Re: Need help with refining 2nd order power bits

Post by passionfly1 » Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:36 pm

My test setup +luck is at default of +353, unbuffed, just clothing, no bonus RE chance

...3rd test results...
+17 str crafted decor knife (that had a +17 2nd order power bit and normal mod bit SEA dropped onto it)
+16 con looted wookie gloves
RE results:
+18 2nd order power bit
theory: the crafted knife is providing the power of the final not the looted item

...4th test...
+18 stam crafted decor knife (that had a +18 2nd order power bit and a normal mod bit SEA dropped onto it)
+16 con looted dress shirt
RE results:
+19 2nd order power bit
theory: again because there is a 2 point difference between the +18 and +16 the final result must be determined by the higher of the two. This being the +18 stam crafted knife not the looted item. To go from +16 to +19, a 3 point jump, I am just not that lucky! lol

...5th test...
+25 2nd order crafted decor knife (that had a +26 2nd order power bit and a normal mod bit dropped onto it)
+16 con looted casual shirt
RE results:
+26 2nd order power bit
theory: this is very promising since it appears the +25 crafted knife is giving it the power yet the extra looted item preserves the 2nd order status.

...6th test...
+27 2nd order crafted decor knife (that had a +27 2nd order power bit and a normal mod bit dropped onto it)
+16 precision looted right bicep
RE results:
+27 2nd order power bit
theory: either it stayed at the current power level and did no increment or its not possible to increment once the items are above +25 whether looted or crafted.

...7th test...
+27 2nd order crafted decor knife (that had a +27 2nd order power bit and a normal mod bit dropped onto it)
+16 stam looted pants
RE results:
+26 2nd order power bit
theory: >.<

...8th
+26 2nd order knife
+22 str looted transport suit
RE results:
+26 2nd order power bit
theory: >.< >.<

...9th
+26 2nd order knife
+20 agi looted bone helmet
RE results:
+24 2nd order power bit
theory: this crap sucks!!!

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passionfly1
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Re: Need help with refining 2nd order power bits

Post by passionfly1 » Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:02 pm

more tests...
test 10
+30 crafted decor knife (with 1st order power bit/normal mod bit inside)
+17/+17 double statted looted item
RE results:
+29 2nd order power bit

RE again with a +19 looted item:
+29 2nd order power bit

RE again with a +21 looted item:
+29 2nd order power bit

RE again with a +18/+17 double statted loot item:
+30 2nd order power bit ========= SUCCESS!!!!

theory: it seems that refining 2nd order power bits is identical in process to the 1st orders except the parts are more loot based (as opposed to being junk loot based for 1st order) to preserve the 2nd order status of the power bit. Whether an item starts out as 1st bit or 2nd bit is regardless to what is actually added before its reverse engineered, mainly stat looted parts. A double stat looted item has as likely chance to not work and either maintain the 2nd order power as a single stat item. The single stat item is way more likely to create drastic plummets in the 2nd order power bits power, however.

It is therefore recommended that the statted item being dropped into the RE tool have 2 stats and be as strong as possible in those stats in order to increment the iteration upwards the 2nd order bits power rather then maintaining or decreasing a 2nd order bits power. There is a slight chance of this process generating a 3rd order power bit but this is not the desired result for the moment just a nice advantage for later perhaps once I get into making 3rd order power bits later.

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Re: Need help with refining 2nd order power bits

Post by Zimoon » Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:40 am

Quick brief revealed no open questions, so I guess this is a blog :mrgreen:

Yes, you have by trial & error--or should I say empirical research?--learned what is in the mentioned guide. You have done it the same way as players before you when ground RE was added to the game in 2006 :)

And believe me, what we know today was not instantly apparent. For example, it took a while until players figured that if an item with a SEA on it could bump one point when RE-ing it again, if they were lucky. That gave the iteration-approach. Until then we thought no power bit could be stronger than the über best loot item 8)

It took a while to figure out the correlation between REChance and PUPs. Not to mention to learn that +600 Luck makes a difference. Etc.

Personally I am excited when I learn something new in SWG, and I still learn, no doubt about that in this game that is one of the games with tons of hidden complexities for newcomers. But I also love writing guides to help others the way I was helped when I begun playing 5 years back :)

/Zimoon

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